- Spiritual Needs of the Dying. This is related to an earlier prompt about the importance of faith in human nature. Question: does everyone have spiritual needs? Even atheists? Even the dying? Even children? Please explore.
- Are we dualistic creatures? Do we have minds separate from bodies as Descartes argued? Or is that a folk tale we tell ourselves for comfort? What is the mind-body problem? Do souls exist? If yes, how does that fit into human metaphysics? Which of the many possible philosophical positions detailed in Barry's Chpt 5 is most comforting / makes the most sense to you?
- Does one need to have a conception of a personal soul for immortality to make sense? Explain.
Wednesday, February 13, 2013
The Self (Barry Chpt 5)
Comment on a few of these prompts:
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I believe we are dualistic creatures. In other words, our body is separate from our mind/ soul. I believe that our soul does survive a bodily death, but I do not know where I stand on the soul existing before life (pre-life) suggested by Plato. As I read the chapter, I thought it was interesting when it said the Roman Catholic Church adopted the idea of dual nature that was originally proposed by Plato. I am not sure how Plato mustered this idea, if it was for comfort or food for thought? I do not know. The mind body problem is that if the mind and body are different and separate, then how can two distinct/ separate entities interact with one another. In order for a person to make sense of immortality, I think it is important for them to have a firm understanding of a soul. A body can only last so long, but if the person realizes that the soul can not perish, I think they would understand immortality better.
ReplyDeleteI do believe that we are dualistic creatures and I agree with Descartes that our minds are separate from our bodies. This idea may bring us comfort so that we do not fear death as much because we believe that there is something more after death, but I believe that is true, that there is something after death and our souls live on. Souls do exist although it is very hard to define how it fits into human metaphysics because it is immaterial and unknown to us. I find it hard to understand the pre-existence of the soul, however, I find it much more easy to understand the soul of the afterlife. The mind-body problem refers to the problem that since the mind and body are separate, how does the two interact with each other? Descartes explains his dual-substance theory as the “[…] mind and body are causally connected so that mental events can cause physical events and vice versa” (90). Since the mind is termed immaterial and the body is material, another question arises of how is it possible for something material to interact with something that is not material.
ReplyDeleteI do think that a person does need to have an understanding of a personal soul for immortality to make sense. My reasoning is that if they do not have a conception of a soul then there is no way that you could understand that there is something after death, because your body cannot live forever and your body cannot enter an “afterlife.” The soul grants a person immortality without being tied to the human body. This conception of individual souls is extremely important to understand in order for immortality to make sense
I believe that we are dualistic creatures and that our mind/soul is separate form our body as Descartes suggests. Since it is so hard to (and we technically can't) define what exactly a soul is and how it works to fit in with our bodies, we have no real way to know if souls are real. In this way, it is plausible that we believe that souls exist only to comfort ourselves and ease our fears of death. I have always believed that we continue to live on even after the death of our physical bodies. I feel that I developed this belief as a child. When someone in your family dies when you are young, most parents tell their children that the deceased is "looking over them." Hearing this growing up, helped to develop my belief in souls. Another thing that leads me to believe that we continue on with our souls after we die is the unexplainable things that people sometimes experience after someone that they know dies. For example, after my friend in high school, Ethan, killed himself, his family began to find pennies in the strangest places (such as flower pots in their house). They bean making a joke of it, saying that it was Ethan checking up on them and letting them know that he was still with them. Then his mother posted on his Facebook saying that she hadn't found any pennies in awhile and asked Ethan to send her one. Then next day she found one (I can't remember where though). Hearing this story and ones similar to it, further strengths my belief in souls.
ReplyDeleteI believe in reincarnation, so Plato's idea that the soul has a pre-life seems pretty plausible to me. I do realize that he wasn't referring to reincarnation exactly, but I think that it can tie in. I feel that as our soul is reincarnated we don't usually hold onto the specific memories of our past life (such as who we were, what we did, etc.). I feel that your soul will maintain your personal character though. By this I mean your personal characteristics that make you, you (like if you are a genuinely nice person deep down you will continue to be a genuinely nice person in your next life even though you may be a different sex, race, pursue a different life style, etc. As for the Forms that Plato talks about that we must have developed in our pre-life, I feel that we develop those from where our souls are made. If you're religious, that could mean Heaven and that God creates your soul and your soul experiences these Forms there. There are many other takes on this subject, but this is how I view it, and seeing it in this way does bring me comfort about what happens after we die.
The Way Jackie Sees It:
ReplyDeleteI don't think that we are dualistic creatures. I believe that the mind and body are not separate, but work together and exist as a one working being. That being said, when the body dies, so does the mind. However, I that people live immortally as a soul. My definition of an immortal soul, though, is probably way different than the usual idea. I don't believe that the soul is something that lives on in Heaven or with however many virgins or in spooky mansions... I believe that a person's soul is made immortal through other people. I think that a person's soul is the idea of who that person was, meaning goals, values, ideas, way of life... that lives on in other people's memories who are still alive. Pieces of a person soul can then be passed on with another's after they die, as the memory of the soul was remembered and incorporated into that person's soul, good or bad and whether they want to uphold those values... or not.
You guys probably think I sound crazy right now and that I hate religions. It is actually quite the opposite. In class, I was the one who's family got kicked out of a Catholic church and then my family just started going to all sorts of different religions... Well, I believe in all of them. I think the stories and histories of them are all basically true and I believe that the concepts are all similar. Each has the idea of living to love each other, and most celebrate a higher being or a higher idea of thought, I just believe that we show it in a different way. When you think about it, there can either be one religious truth, or no truth at all.
With this being said and pertaining to death and immortality, I believe that Heaven and Nirvanna and the virgins and any other promise for after death is a methaphor for the state of mind we are in after death-- peace-- and that our souls will live on in others. Did I just hear a lion roar? A "circle of life?" What? No, not really. I'm not about to tell you all my whole religous beliefs and stuff.
But I do think religion is a great idea in itself. It teaches people to live and treat others good and to allow people to belong to something and connect to others on an emotional level. The problem in the world is that all these religions clash and bang heads in their differences. But look at the similarities and each having a certain goal and about loving... The differences are what people tend to focus on and they think that they are superior than others and thats when religions become hypicritial, their righteous ideas turn to hating others. Why can't we just all get along?
Jackie: I bet many in our class believe something similar. What I want to ask / challenge us to do over the next several weeks (by the end of March) is to consider going to a religious service that is not your normal. So if you normally don't participate in something religious during the week, try something. And if you do normally, consider adding something different? Synagog? Mosque? A different version of Christianity, if that's your tradition? I'll make a separate post for options including suggestions if you want them and ride sharing.
ReplyDeleteI would like to adress the second and third prompts: I believe that we are dualistic creatures. The mind and the body are separate and the former is able to live without the latter. To be honest, my rationale for dualism stems from some of my own speculation and from some of what we read in class. What if this reality is just a dream? Sometimes, I have extremely life-like dreams, wherein I experience thoughts and emotions and perform many of the tasks that I normally do when conscious. What if this is just another of my dreams? If it is, my body does not exist. It is only my mind acting independently of my body that creates reality and exists. I have no way of knowing that my body exists, but I can confidently assert that my mind exists. This is similar to Descartes's argument: There is no way to concretely prove any aspect of reality (including the existence of one's own body), except that the mind exists. Anything and everything may be an illusion, but my mind is undoubtedly real.
ReplyDeleteOne of the major criticism of dualism is termed the mind-body problem, which questions how--if the mind and body are separate--the two are able to interact. If the mind and the body are separate, what is the interface by which one can control the other? How does feeling thirsty (in the mind) cause one to extend his or her arm to pick up and open a bottle of water? I honestly do not know how to address this. I cannot fall back on Descartes here, because it is not the work of the pineal gland and I am not yet ready to accept personally that it is the work of God (I am still formulating my own religious identity). In addition, I don't find many of the arguments presented in chapter five of the text very convincing.
Finally, yes, acceptance of the existence of some kind of immaterial soul is prerequisite for making some argument for immortality. If the mind and body are seen as one (monism), the mind would therefore die with the body. There is no doubt that the body dies (eventually, no matter which definition one accepts) and so therefore immortality would be impossible, as the mind would dis to. It is only by an unchanging, immaterial soul that a person is able to survive postmortem. "If dual-substance theory doesn't add up, then the philosophical foundation for all survival hypotheses collapes." (90)
I believe we are dualistic creatures. I don't believe we can seperate mind from body and vice versa.
ReplyDeleteI believe we all have a soul and that soul is what makes each one of us who we are. I'm not much of a religious person, but these statements may be related to my 8 years of Catholic Church education.
With each soul, I also believe that we have flaws. There is always a part of the soul that makes us who we are, act the way we do, etc. I believe this ties into our mind. We may know and understand what we should or shouldn't do based on our own reasons, however the mind always knows what the body wants. You may say to yourself I can do this or I can't do that, but in reality I believe we already know what we want when we ask these questions. Just as the soul asks who do I want to be. The soul always knows who it will be, but it will go through stages of change to get there. This brings me to immortatlity. Each soul will go through such stages in the body to find it's way to eternal happiness in whichever form it desires. The body will die without the mind, the mind will die with no body. With no soul there is no such thing as mind or body, they would just have a physical existance with no aim to progress anywhere.
addressing the first topic
ReplyDeletei do not think that as humans we do not have to have spiritual needs. there have been and are currently atheists all over the world and because they dont have a spiritual relationship with a higher being does not lessen the values of their lives. i personally believe some sort of relationship with a higher being/power/ect can bennefit a person but i do not believe that as humans we need a spiritual connection. i think having a spiritual connection promotes internal peace and a better understanding of one's self but those who dont believe can also achieve this, they just might go about this a different way.
i think im defenidng the sides of the atheists not because i am one but just that i do not think it is fair to say all people have spiritual needs.
Addressing Question 1: I do think we all need spiritual needs, but as a Catholic I know without my faith I probably would not fully understand events, such as death. As a Catholic, I try to pray daily to thank God for my blessings as well as to pray for those in need. I think prayer is a major part of spiritual needs and I do believe prayer helps. I think that your spirituals needs are based off your religion you believe in; some may have spiritual needs and some may not. I would say atheists do not believe in spiritual needs because they do not believe in the higher being or beings, I am not sure though. I have never looked into atheist’s beliefs before. I do believe there is a balance needed between your mind, body, and spirit. Each of these components enables us to live better lives; each component plays a role on the other. Spirit gives you faith, which allows you to have a purpose in life. As a Catholic I know God has given me a purpose to fulfill in life.
ReplyDeleteI've learned in my theology class that our brains have a big space for religion. So if someone is aetheist, what happens to that part of the brain? They do not fully develop their brain and use it to its maximum potential. My father for example,has declared himself an aetheist. He does not believe in the afterlife and doesn't believe in seeing any of our relatives after death. When I was 14, I had mis-diagnosed strep-throat, and left untreated, it developed into Sydenham's chorea. It went up into my brainstem and I was not able to control my motor skills at all. Although the disease is treatable with medication and therapy, the thought arose what happened if I died? My dads response to that was "I'll obviously do everything in my power for you to get all of the treatments and medications you need..but if you die, you'll just be dead." That might not be the exact words he said becuase I really don't remember much of my illness but he said something similar to that. Until that point, I didn't know that my dad was aetheist. For all of funerals I attended growing up, I just do not understand how someone cannot be optimistic and think that they will see their loved ones in the afterlife. When I try to ask my dad about his beliefs he get aggravated with me, then I get upset about his beliefs becuase when he dies, what will I have too look forward too? My dad is a very private and logical. He doesn't show emotions very often so for him to not be religious whatsoever,I often think what is taking up that part of his brain becuase to me, it seems like anger has taken over.
ReplyDeleteI believe we are not dualistic, that the body and mind are in consistent states with each other. After all, how do our thoughts get communicated if there is no connection between the mind/body. I believe that it is our soul which resides somewhere in my body that guides my thoughts and decisions which ultimately turn into actions. I also believe that each person is individually unique in regards to their souls and in saying that, whenever someone dies there body may no longer function but it is their soul which carries on.
ReplyDeleteJackie, I never thought about Nirvana and Heaven, and all the after-lifes as being a metaphor. I'm glad you shared your opinion on that because I think it is an accurate statement. All too often we are caught up in arguing over whose religion is better but never identify the common ground, as pointed out by Jackie, that exists between them.
I believe that everyone has spiritual needs whether part of a religion, children, or atheists. I also believe some have more and some have less needs depending on how involved their beliefs are. These needs can be "normal spiritual needs or unique and different needs that some may not even consider as spiritual.
ReplyDeleteI also believe that every human has a soul that embodies the mind and body that is seen as one, not dualistically.